Interview of the newspaper “Svit” with the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Japan to Ukraine MATSUDA Kuninori
Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Japan to Ukraine Matsuda Kuninori is well known in political, cultural, educational and scientific circles in Ukraine, including universities and scientific institutions. He represents a country that has firmly and consistently supported our country since the first days of Independence. Cooperation between our countries further increased with the beginning of Russia’s full-scale aggression against Ukraine. Since the first days of the war, the Ambassador and, under his leadership, the Embassy of Japan have done a lot to help Ukraine, to strengthen partnership between our countries, and to encourage interaction and mutual enrichment of our cultures.
Shortly before the end of his diplomatic mission, the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Japan to Ukraine Matsuda Kuninori answered the questions of the newspaper “Svit”.
Anticipation of War, and Its Beginning
– Mr. Ambassador, October marks three years since you arrived in Ukraine. At the time, there were less than five months left before the start of a large-scale war. There had already been a lot of talk about Russia’s potential attack on Ukraine. Did you feel that you were going to a country that was about to be embroiled in a full-scale war? What was that short pre-war period like for you and the Japanese Embassy?
— Even back in the summer 2021, before we arrived in Kyiv, it was obvious that Russia was amassing military power along the border under the pretext of conducting military drills. I did not believe that Russia will start a full-scale invasion then, but I thought that there would be some provocations against Ukraine. When I learned that I would be transferred from Islamabad to Kyiv (Mr. Matsuda Kuninori was then the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Japan in Pakistan, — int.), I was told by Tokyo: just in case something terrible happens, we are going to send you to Kyiv (since I was known in Tokyo as a “trouble-shooting” diplomat).
And yet, between the time I arrived in Kyiv and the moment when the full-scale invasion began, we still had the opportunity to enjoy a brief period of peace.
We arrived in Kyiv at the beginning of October, it was a beautiful autumn, with red and yellow leaves… After South Asia, where the weather and nature are completely different, we immediately felt: this is Europe.
My wife and I visited many museums and theaters in the pre-war period. I particularly remember the beautiful Christmas gala at the National Opera and Ballet Theater. And at the same time, we worked hard at the Embassy. Although we felt that war might be approaching, we tried to do as much as possible in the peacetime.
— What was February 24, 2022 like for you personally?
— I woke up that day before four o’clock in the morning with some strange feeling in my chest. Despite such an early hour, I talked with my friends from the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, as well as with Tokyo. And then, from the window of my bedroom on the second floor of the residence, I saw the first Russian missile flying through the sky.
I immediately contacted all the Embassy staff, four of them were with me, and I invited everyone to stay at the residence, as there is a shelter in the basement.
Around seven or eight in the morning I went outside to feel the mood in the city. And I was very happy to spot a familiar lady walking her dog. Buses were running, some people were hurrying to work. It felt like living in a parallel reality: on the one hand, a war had begun, and on the other, life continued as before. The general picture was calm and quiet, as if I were watching a black and white movie… This was the beginning of the day.
— The Embassy was forced to move to Poland. How did it function there?
— Yes, our original plan was to evacuate through Moldova, Romania, Poland, and later return to Lviv, where we were going to open a small office. But then news reached us that Russia together with the Belarusian troops might attack the western part of Ukraine, so we decided to stay for the time being in the Polish border town of Rzeszów.
Rzeszów felt like a small, quiet, cozy town, but after the beginning of the full-scale invasion, all the G7 embassies and representatives of international organizations moved there. Rzeszów airport began transporting military and humanitarian cargo. Also, many Ukrainian civil servants and ordinary Ukrainians came to Rzeszów and Poland in general, and we had the opportunity to hold both regular and online meetings with representatives of the Ukrainian government. Therefore, we also worked and carried out our diplomatic mission from Poland.
We returned to Ukraine on August 1. And in October there was a full-fledged opening of the Embassy.
Cossacks and Modern Ukrainians: What Do They Have in Common?
— In your first address to Ukrainians as the newly appointed Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Japan to Ukraine, you mentioned that your acquaintance with Ukraine took place in your youth, when you read “Taras Bulba” by Mykola Gogol, and you were impressed by the spirit of the Cossacks and their fight for freedom. Now you have had the opportunity to see Ukrainians and their fight for freedom at a new historical stage. What character traits have you noticed in our people? How does your impression of Ukrainians compare with what you have read about the Cossacks?
– Indeed, this is one of the most valuable memories for me, and I want to elaborate on it in more detail. Mykola Gogol’s book, “Taras Bulba“, in Japanese translation was a gift from my father for my birthday. I was puzzled as to why my father gave me this book, so I asked him about it. And he told me: “Look: we, the Japanese, are the proud sons and daughters of the samurai. But there is another unique nation in this world that also cherishes its warrior heritage. Those are the Cossacks.” I asked how he knew about them, and my father said that he was acquainted with an American of Ukrainian origin when he served in the army during the Second World War and was the head of one of the prisoner-of-war camps in China. In this camp, Americans, Australians, and representatives of other nations were held. And it was there that he befriended the descendant of Ukrainian Cossacks who made such an impression on him.
You are right about the similarity of character of the Ukrainians in different historical periods. Such traits as courage, braveness, desire for independence, and protection of their honor are characteristic of Ukrainians even today. And during these three years, I noticed that even under the stress of the war, Ukrainians do not lose their sense of humor. And since all these good features that I have listed contribute to the unity of society, to the Ukrainians’ endurance and resistance against the aggressor, I am convinced that Ukraine will win this war.
Hiroshima Inspires Confidence
— In 2023, Japan presided over the G7, and the Japanese Embassy was involved in preparations for the 49th G7 summit, and particularly issues concerning Ukraine that were discussed during the summit. Could you tell us more about this work and about your personal impressions as a participant in the process of preparation for the summit?
— If we talk about personal impressions, I will remember for the rest of my life how the Prime Minister of Japan Fumio Kishida and the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy walked side by side to lay flowers at the memorial to the victims of the atomic bombing in Hiroshima. After this, your president said: Hiroshima was completely destroyed by the atomic attack, and now it is completely rebuilt and is a thriving city again, and this, more than anything else, gives him confidence that Ukraine will recover in the same way. These words of your President were a very powerful moment for me.
Of course, many decisions were made at this summit about how we will continue to support Ukraine, as well what strict sanctions we will use against Russia. One of the important results of the summit was the signing by the leaders of the Group of Seven of a communique confirming unwavering support for Ukraine for as long as it will be necessary.
Another important achievement, in my opinion, was that Prime Minister Kishida invited to this meeting not only the leaders of the G7, but also some leaders of the Global South, with whom President Zelenskyy was able to meet and talk.
And, of course, the Embassy is proud of our participation in the organization of this summit and, in particular, how we were able to organize the logistics of the visit of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his flight to Japan.
Before then, the President of Ukraine had visited the countries of Europe and North America, but there were many difficulties in organizing his flight to Southeast Asia. And, as you understand, before achieving this goal, it was necessary to maintain complete anonymity and secrecy for the safety of the Ukrainian leader. For the first few weeks, I was the only person who knew about Zelenskyy’s visit to the summit, I could not speak to anyone about it and felt very lonely (here the Ambassador smiles, – int.). The only people I could talk to this about were the Office of the President officials who, to retain secrecy, usually organized our meetings after the dark. But we have accomplished this important task and can be reasonably proud of it.
“Triumvirate” for Development: Education-Science-Technology
— I would like to touch on the cooperation of our countries in the development of education, science and technology, which is extremely important for the future of Ukraine, as it was for Japan at one time. How is educational and scientific research structured in Japan? Where is scientific research most concentrated — in universities, in research institutes? How is science funded in Japan?
— I completely agree that the development of science, education, and technology is very important for Ukraine, Japan, and every other country that wants to develop and achieve success. This is the key point.
In Japan, there is a good balance between the public and private sectors. There are two main sources of funding for scientific research: the government, and the private companies. The government money mostly goes to basic, fundamental research, while the private sector funds more practical application of research. And this is very good for universities – both public and private, which can receive budget money – for both conducting fundamental research with government money, and conducting applied research with private sector money.
The private sector is important in this process because every large company and even a medium-sized company has a research institute or other scientific institution attached to it.
If we take such indicator as the share of a country’s GDP for scientific research, in Japan it is 1.72%, one of the largest in the world.
One of the big challenges that remains unresolved is that the vast majority of researchers are men, and we need to do more to get women into science and technology fields. My mother, who was a high school math teacher, always told her students to go for science and technology, not humanities. This is what is always in demand. She was right – the only problem is that I, her son, did not listen to her advice (smiles, – int.).
— Does Japan have “priority areas” as guidelines for researchers, or does the government task universities or scientific institutes with developing research areas that are important for the country?
— Private universities have complete freedom. Public universities also enjoy freedom as to which subjects and how exactly to teach students. They only receive instructions from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology on administrative matters, but not on education.
However, there is a long-term policy of the state regarding universities. For example, before World War II, Japan was a major military power, and the state forced universities to focus on military research. After our defeat, the country lay in ruins. In order to rebuild it, the government decided to put the military research on the backburn and focus on the development of science and technology that would make it possible to rebuild the country. And I think that we have more or less succeded.
If you look at what is taught in scientific and engineering specialties in universities and university departments today, you will see that even the names of departments correspond to important industrial sectors within the country. For example, we see departments of shipbuilding, robotics, radio technologies, etc.
However, in view of the Russian-Ukrainian war, Japan may need once again to focus on military research.
Teachers are Drivers of Progress
— Soon Ukraine will face the issue of reconstruction and transformation within the country. How, in your opinion, can we best utilize the role of education and science in these processes?
— I cannot give any advice or instructions, but in my opinion, more budget money should be allocated to education, and more young people should be encouraged to become teachers.
— We know how much the profession of a teacher, professor, and scientist is respected in Japan, and that this respect is duly reflected in salaries and pensions… But why teachers?
— I think that, unlike in other countries, teachers in Japan really have a high social status. And I’m not talking about university professors, but about school teachers, and particularly about primary school teachers. My mother, as I mentioned, was a high school teacher, and then moved to primary school. As she explained it: in Japan, children go to school at the age of 6, and at that age they are like a blank slate with nothing written on it yet. And what you instill in them in the next 6 years (the duration of primary school in Japan is 6 years, – int.) will be their basis for further education and life in general. If this period turns out to be a failure, it will be difficult for the student to recover in middle and high school. Therefore, primary school is the place where most important foundations for life are laid. And that’s why primary school teachers receive high salaries, which encourages students to choose this profession.
– And how do universities encourage students?
— Universities are another matter. Public universities pay little, so few graduates stay to work for them. Private universities pay a lot, and therefore compete with state ones, luring employees to a higher salary. Therefore, the state policy on teaching in higher education is quite pragmatic. If public university professors want more money, why don’t they collaborate with the private sector as researchers?
26 Nobel Laureates in Japan
— The scientific achievements of Japan are impressive. We counted 26 Japanese scientists who won the Nobel Prize in the period after World War II. 11 of them are physicists. What should be done to achieve such results? What can Ukraine learn from Japan in this regard?
— I have very practical advice: in order to win the Nobel Prize, it is not enough to have good research and be a good researcher, you also need to somehow let the Nobel Committee know about yourself. The first thing that the government should do, and what is done in Japan: the government encourages university professors and researchers to publish their research in English in foreign English-language scientific publications. And it provides subsidies for this.
The second thing that is done in Japan is to invite the members of the Nobel Committee to the country, introduce them to scientists and to the research they carry out, in order to demonstrate the scientific areas Japan is strong in.
And finally, the third thing. We see that there are a certain number of international universities where more than one Nobel laureate works – these are universities in the USA, Great Britain, Germany, and other countries. So it is necessary to establish cooperation with these universities.
Earlier, before we began to receive Nobel Prizes, we also thought that, if some Japanese genius invents some new chemical method or does something else that is special, everyone would know about it and we would receive a prize. But life is not that simple. So we changed our policy: encouraging English-language publications, inviting members of the Nobel Committee to the country to familiarize them with our research, and cooperating with strong universities that have already received Nobel Prizes more than once – all of this made it possible to show the world and the Nobel Committee the scientific achievements of Japanese science.
Reality and Prospects
— Which educational and scientific institutions of Ukraine does the Embassy of Japan cooperate with the most?
— We are convinced that the powerful development of science and education can be achieved thanks to international cooperation, combining the talent and intelligence of representatives of different countries. With this in mind, the Embassy made a lot of effort to strengthen cooperation with key universities in Ukraine. One of these universities is the National Technical University of Ukraine “Ihor Sikorsky Kyiv Polytechnic Institute”.
Taras Shevchenko Kyiv National University and Borys Grinchenko Kyiv Metropolitan University are very important partners, especially in the study of Japanese language and literature (the latter’s representatives do a lot to spread Japanese studies in Ukraine). Ivan Franko Lviv National University is also important for learning the Japanese language and getting to know Japanese culture.
An important partner for the Embassy is the Kyiv-Mohyla Business School at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. I was personally invited there to give four lectures about Japan’s foreign policy, and about the Russo-Japanese war and its lessons for Ukraine.
Unfortunately, after the start of the full-scale war, we were forced to suspend our cooperation with several universities, in particular – in Kharkiv and Dnipro. I can say that, for example, there are many good engineering universities in Kharkiv.
— The Minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology of Japan, Mr. Moriyama Masahito, recently visited Ukraine, and the first meeting of the Ukrainian-Japanese Joint Commission on Cooperation was held. What were the results of this visit?
— In February of this year, when the Prime Minister of Ukraine, Mr. Denys Shmyhal, visited Japan, a memorandum of understanding and cooperation between our governments was signed. And within the framework of this memorandum, Minister Moriyama came to Ukraine and met with Minister Oksen Lisovy. And they held a meeting of the Ukrainian-Japanese joint commission. Among its results, I would note the agreements on the exchange of students and teachers of our universities, the provision of scholarships by the Japanese government to Ukrainian students. It is envisaged, in particular, that 5 Ukrainian postgraduate researchers will be able to go to Japan for a maximum of 2 years, 100 university students will be able to go to study Japanese language and culture for a year, and 10 high school students will be able to visit Japan for up to 10 days.
I think that many scientists will also be interested in the information that the Japan Science and Technology Agency (JST) will finance joint research of Ukrainian and Japanese scientists.
— The final document of the meeting also states that 25,000 books will be translated into Ukrainian for preschool and primary education. I wonder what kind of books these are? Who will translate and finance their release?
— These are interesting children’s books, beautifully illustrated, which will introduce Ukrainian children to their peers in Japan, their life and education, with our holidays, customs, folk art. Financed by the government. I am sure the translators will be found, and perhaps even the most modern technologies will also be involved.
— Japanese literature is popular in Ukraine. Is there currently a potential interest for Ukrainian literature in Japan, and do you consider the popularization of Ukrainian literature to be a promising direction for cultural exchange between our countries?
— One of the effects of the Russian invasion was a significant increase in interest in everything related to Ukraine, including Ukrainian literature. Currently, there is a great interest in Japan for books about Ukraine, specifically in the context of war and international relations (which mostly also relate to war). But I hope that poems and novels by Ukrainian authors will also be translated in the future. I think they will be popular. My eldest son, who works in a travel company in Japan, says that after the war there will be a real boom in interest and in travel to Ukraine. And this boom, in turn, will lead to a boom in literature about Ukraine, its land, history, people, and culture. I am convinced that he is right.
In the Future — KPI Center in Tokyo?
— You recently took part in the opening of the Festival “Japanese Autumn”, which was organized by the Ukraine-Japan Center of the Igor Sikorsky Kyiv Polytechnic Institute (KPI) with the help of the Embassy of Japan. During three days, its participants could experience all the diversity and multifacetedness of Japanese culture. How do you evaluate the work of this Center for the promotion of Japanese language and culture in Ukraine? How do you see its development?
— This Center is one of the biggest partners of the Embassy in promoting Japanese culture, literature, and language. In particular, we are talking about well-known and popular aspects – tea ceremony, ikebana, various martial arts, such as karate, judo, kendo. And at the same time, the Embassy is interested in expanding the scope of this center.
We would like the Center to be able to hold joint workshops, seminars, conferences in such areas as politics, diplomacy, trade, investments, military issues. That is, for it to become an intellectual hub in Ukraine on many different issues.
I have no doubt that after the war there will be free movement between Japan and Ukraine. In particular, we are planning to open a direct flight from Kyiv to Tokyo. And I hope that the Ukraine-Japan Center will invite many researchers from Japan, as well as cooperate with Ukrainian researchers. It can also invite Japanese theaters, show Japanese movies, organize sports competitions.
And we would also like to open an office of the KPI Center in Tokyo. In my opinion, it would be quite easy to accomplish. After all, the Center is supported by the KPI, so we can find a corresponding university in Japan that would become a partner of the KPI, and the Ukraine-Japan Center in Tokyo can be opened in that university, and then they can easily interact.
We started some negotiations about this before the full-scale invasion. And although they stopped after the beginning of the big war, we plan to renew them.
— If there is a direct flight between Kyiv and Tokyo, will there be any changes to the visa situation?
— Back in February of this year, an agreement was reached between the two prime ministers of Japan and Ukraine on the provision of multiple-entry visas valid for up to 5 years for businessmen, but our final plan is to cancel all visas. And we are gradually trying to convince the Ministry of Justice of Japan, which is responsible for migration policy, of this, and we hope that step by step we will achieve this goal. For example, initially visas for scientists, researchers, journalists, tourists, etc. may be simplified. We know about Ukrainians’ desire to simplify or cancel visas, but there are still some people in Japan who are cautious about this. They fear that Russians or citizens of other republics of the former Soviet Union will use such loopholes.
–You have a huge diplomatic experience. Each country in which you worked has probably left an impression in your memory and in your heart. What memories and impressions will Ukraine leave with you?
– Yes, there are a lot of impressions, but there are a few particular ones that – I am sure – are forever etched in my memory.
My earliest memory is the beginning of a full-scale war, when our embassy was forced to temporarily leave Ukraine. At the border with Moldova, I saw a long line of cars driven by men. However, as soon as they reached the border, the men said their goodbyes, hugged women and children, and turned back – into the darkness of the Ukrainian war. This farewell, and concern for the safety of these men will forever remain with me. Many of those men were in military uniform.
And then, in August, when we returned from Poland, I went to Bucha, entered a church, and met a priest there. I will always remember his eyes – blue eyes, full of incredible sorrow from the fact that he saw so many people, his parishioners, dead. Those eyes are etched in my memory forever.
Another unforgettable memory is of a different nature. We were driving along Ukrainian fields that stretched without end in sight. Japan is a mountainous country, and I was really amazed that a scenery could be so beautiful without mountains. Sometimes we stopped the car, and I could enjoy the wonderful view of blooming sunflowers against the background of the blue sky. Two colors divided in half by the horizon. That was the first time I understood the meaning of your flag.
– Thank you for such bright and touching memories. Thank you for the interview, for your work, for helping Ukraine. We thank Japan for a reliable and strong partnership.
Interviewer: Larysa OSTROLUTSKA
P.S. After the interview, Mr. Matsuda Kuninori mentioned his intention to write a book “Ukraine at War”, publish it in Japanese, – and then, hopefully, it will be published in Ukrainian as well.